Daily Coronavirus Webinar: trade unions and businesses working together

We apologise that due to a technical issue we're unable to bring you today's recording. We'll have this fixed for tomorrow's webinar. 

Our Daily Coronavirus Webinar on 8 April included our regular update from Dame Carolyn Fairbairn, as well as a special focus on how trade unions and businesses can work together. We discussed a wide range of topics, and answered questions from the audience. We heard from:

• James Harding, Co-founder and Editor, Tortoise Media
• Dame Carolyn Fairbairn, Director-General, CBI
• Frances O'Grady, General Secretary, British Trades Union Congress

Overview:

• We’ve seen strong collaboration between the CBI and the TUC – built on our existing relationship (and joint interventions in recent years). Three things in particular:
• On employee safety:
  • We made a joint statement, along with the Health and Safety Executive – in total agreement that where businesses can safely stay open and support livelihoods, they should not be forced to close due to misunderstandings about government guidance.
  • Partnership is essential to guarantee safe working conditions – employers should be providing information and protective equipment, while government guidance needs to be as clear as possible.
• On securing the Job Retention Scheme:
  • A real joint effort, with both TUC and CBI bringing insight directly into government. An extraordinary moment of unity – I sat with Frances across the table from the chancellor for 45 minutes, working to the same goal of helping people keep their jobs.
  • And vitally important for businesses through this crisis – a lifeline for industry.
• Finally, the most recent collaboration – on helping firms access protective equipment (PPE):
  • We know this is vital for people working on the frontline in the NHS – but also for companies in critical sectors like social care, health and logistics.
  • As I mentioned, at the CBI we’re picking up the call to help business and government co-ordinate to meet demand.
• So a call to arms: to all organisations, not just manufacturers but suppliers, lawyers, logistics and others – please do get in touch to let us know where the gaps are, and where you can help.
• We are convening a business call at 11:30am next Wednesday which you can register for via our website.
• In the meantime, you can also get in touch through businessheroes@cbi.org.uk.
• In terms of next steps – plenty more we can discuss in a moment, but likely that we will be talking to the TUC about coronavirus testing for key workers.
• Will be vital to have this partnership working well as we cautiously turn our thoughts to the recovery and exit plan from lockdown.

Key questions we answered:

1. On the Job Retention Scheme, from the TUC perspective, what is the reaction and concerns your members have raised about how the furloughing scheme is working?

• This is the first time we have had a wage subsidy scheme that is common in other European countries.
• This bailout had to be different to the one after the financial crash. The evidence shows that if you keep workers and the firm connected then it is much more likely that businesses can be back up and running once this crisis is over.
• Many people can still contribute to their workplaces during this period.
• Encouragingly, the Treasury understands that the 18^th April deadline for the 45-day cut off for redundancies constitutes a cliff edge that needs to be addressed.
• Short-time working was an issue particularly in manufacturing. The scheme didn’t allow for that. It was a case of speed over perfection.
• We have also secured improvements such as the capacity for jobs rotation – which is now a minimum of 3 weeks.
• We have also clarified that practically everybody on an insecure contract is still eligible to be part of the JRS.

2. On the JRS scheme, what other observations have the TUC and its members made?

• The first principle we want to instil is that of talking and listening. We can come to practical agreements between companies and employees by taking that approach.
• It is a legal principle that holidays are accrued. If companies have an issue, let’s talk about it and it can be sorted.
• There is a great willingness to make this scheme work on all sides.
• On furloughing, parents and careers can be furloughed where it is really difficult for them. Not as a blanket position as lots of parents want to work, but parents may need extra support to do so and shouldn’t be made to feel bad about it.
• Support for the self employed is more complicated and we are working on it.
• In the creative industries we have encouraged employers to take the self-employed back onto the payroll.

3. For those people who are essential to the national effort and have no choice to remain open – how do we ensure they and their families remain safe? What safeguards can be put in place to protect their health? How should employers handle that?

• Employee safety and the wider community safety is paramount in employers’ minds.
• There is a need for pragmatism and talking to ensure we understand what ‘safe’ means and how to create trust.
• It is helpful that government is providing practical advice, informed by public health England on a sector by sector basis to advise firms on what they can do. Just last night we received new guidance from public health England.
• Where you get employers, workers, health and safety executives and unions around the table, you can find your way through most of the issues.
• For example, food processing in Northern Ireland was a real flash point a week ago, and it has been broadly resolved through talks resulting in the introduction of staggered start times for employees and Perspex screens.
• Another example came out of a meeting between Unite Union and manufacturers, resulting in a joint production programme on protective equipment.
• On the issue of which businesses remain opened and closed, we are getting inconsistent positions across the UK – Scotland’s is different to Wales and Northern Ireland. This undermines trust. We are publicly stating this is not helpful and working together is the way forward.

4. On the eventual re-start of the economy, how should businesses begin to plan for it?

• From a whole economy perspective there will have to be phasing. We will sync the demands of public health with the demands of the economy.
• We will have a workforce which may have suffered bereavements or sickness, I suspect some people will feel nervous about returning to work.
• We need to build people’s confidence and there may be measures we want to keep in place until that confidence is back.
• When we are through the crisis we may face a global recession. We could be facing unemployment numbers. We need reform to the welfare and social protections in response.
• We will also have challenges about how we green our industries and move to new technology on a much bigger scale more quickly.
• We will need an economy where everyone feels they have a stake in it and a fair share of the rewards.

5. What is the exit strategy and when it will come? Is there a group or team within Downing Street that is working on the re-start?

• The team looks like it is beginning to form.
• There is a team working on the cabinet office working on a revival plan. We want ot convene the business-facing side of that as there will need to be detailed sector by sector decisions on how that works, how we re-open the economy.
• We should also look at international examples of best practice, we know Austria is going to be experiment with re-opening their economy as are Denmark, so there are examples to draw from.
• We can mitigate the economic fallout if we work together.
• We are still in the middle of the survival phase. The next stage will be the recovery and a cautious re-opening. The third phase will be revival. This is about addressing the deep-seated issues that were there before.
• We will need to focus on the changes that could come out of this such as climate change, education skills and digital infrastructure.
• We need to think about the recovery and revival stages as soon as possible.
• Many firms are using this word ‘bio-resilient’. What does that mean in practice?
• The idea of having a coalition around this is vital. We are seeing this in terms of the partnership between unions and businesses.

6. Will there be a price to pay for taking government money for participating in these schemes?

• This is an external virus beyond anyone’s control and what we know is schemes like the JRS have been implemented for the nation as a whole. The loan schemes are to protect jobs and businesses for the nation as a whole.
• We want to avoid a sense of recrimination and backlash. We all have to stay on the same side of the table to work together.

7. Considering the global perspective, do you think there has been sufficient international coordination on this?

• The lack of international coordination has been frustrating. The IMF’s efforts on liquidity and capacity are welcome. The World Bank may be returning to the old orthodoxy of recommending austerity, with workers paying the price.
• There is a strong sense that it cannot be back to business as usual and a repeat of what happened after the financial crash.
• We are also seeing bad practice in some countries, particularly in the context of out-bidding. It is terrible to see ventilators, destined for one country, only to see them diverted to the United States of America because they outbid the country it was going to.
• The top priority should be saving human life and when we have ventilators, wouldn’t it make sense to figure out how to shift where they are needed the most as the virus moves around?
• We would like the UK to participate in the EU procurement rounds for protective equipment and ventilators as we are entitled to under the withdrawal agreement.
• We hope the politics are not trumping the imperative which is public health.
• As we come out of this crisis, there will be moments around the G7 and what the European Central Bank does – the fact we are not in the EU anymore is fundamentally irrelevant. We need to be part of this bigger international effort.

8. On the CBI’s call to action on protective equipment (PPE) could you give us an update on that?

• PPE is needed quickly and to scale if we want to protect more jobs and keep more businesses open.
• The Cabinet office has received our call to action, and the responses from businesses, and are keen to rise to this challenge.

9. A manufacturing company has gotten in touch to say they want to assist in the CBI’s call to action on protective equipment. Is there a central point of contact they should send their suggestions to?

• We recommend they come to the CBI to start with. The government are working on it, but a challenge has been creating that single point of contact. Some members have submitted ideas and been met with radio silence.
• If members come to the CBI, we will feed your ideas directly through to the Cabinet Office. We can get that connection made.
• Important to note that the logistics of delivering the PPE is just as challenging as making it. So, if anyone can help please contact the CBI.

10. For SMEs, many are trying to figure out how best to communicate to their employees, how should they go about this?

• The TUC website have live updates with practical advice on how businesses should talk to their employees.
• We have a learning at home programme we have developed for all businesses.
• Acas is a really good resource of practical advice and they have been producing advice on this agenda as well.
• Businesses should focus on setting up a dialogue geared to practicality and problem-solving.

11. What is your message to employers who cannot plan 12 – 18 months ahead, and who’s focus is on the next few weeks. What should be at the forefront of their minds?

• The key message is work with unions. People are your most important asset and times like this vindicate that.
• Supermarket workers, care workers, who are often among the least well-paid are now being demonstrated as the most important.
• There is a bit of a yearning to make the recovery and revival an opportunity to put some of those values at the heart of what we do.

12. What examples of best practice have you seen of employers and unions working together to find solutions to coronavirus problems?

• On safety, we have seen the CBI, TUC and HSE together issuing a joint statement. We are receiving reports of great agreements that companies and unions are making together to build confidence in the workforce that it is safe to work.
  • This seeks to address issues such as how you get to work, whether we can stagger start times for staff, can we scrap team meetings and whether we can thin down the work force to ensure social distancing.